Characters Painwheel - Firefly [Buff]

[SvenZ]

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Firefly is an interesting variant, with a glaring Achilles heel. Having both her Signature Abilities trigger while under 50% HP make her suitable only for defense. And even there, it doesn't provide enough to make her viable, despite having decent HP compared to other variants.

This rework on the surface may look like a nerf, but in practice is a really strong Buff

New Signature Ability 1​
While blocking, gain 2/3/4% HEALTH and BLOCKBUSTER METER per second. Effects are doubled while below 50% HEALTH.​

New Signature Ability 2​
Gain ENRAGE every second while BLOCKING. Enrage lasts 6/8/10 seconds.​

Reasons for SA1 change:

Spoiler

1. The health requirement from the old version is way too limiting for the effects. Even though Firefly has pretty decent HP for a Painwheel variant, the healing will only ever heal her up to 50%, which is not going to help her last all that much. And then the BB meter gain will also stop, which is not good.
2. Now she constantly gains HP and Meter while Blocking. The value may not be amazing, but it's enough to improve her on both offense and defense. Especially since she can dish out a BB3 out much sooner.

Reasons for SA2 change

Spoiler

1. It does take a while to gain full stacks of Enrage, but even so, it can result in a very powerful Pinion Dash as a counter. This change also compliments the increased BB Meter generation. You can reach BB3 a lot faster, and as a result deal a good chunk of damage to the opponent, giving Firefly both a good defensive and offensive edge.

Changelog

Spoiler: changelog

Remake ver 3​

Signature Ability 2​
Old Also gain 5/6/8% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second.​
New BLOCK PROFICIENCY is increased by 15/20/25%. Effect is doubled while below 50% Health.​
Reasons for SA2 change Spoiler 1. Increase Block Proficiency synergizes with her gameplan. Block as much as possible. This frees up another stat that the player can invest in, improving her utility on both offense and defense.

Remake ver 2 ​

Signature Ability 1​
Old When blocking while below 50% HEALTH, gain 5/6/8% HEALTH per second.​
New While blocking, gain 1/2/3% HEALTH per second. Effect is doubled while below 50% HEALTH.​
Reasons for SA1 change: Spoiler .

Signature Ability 2​
Old Also gain 5/6/8% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second.​
New Also gain 1/2/3% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second. Effect is doubled while below 50% HEALTH.​
Reasons for SA2 change Spoiler .

Remake ver 1 ​

Signature Ability 1​
Old When blocking while below 50% HEALTH, gain 5/6/8% HEALTH per second.​
New While blocking, gain 2/3/4% HEALTH per second. Effect is doubled while benefiting from ENRAGE.​
Reasons for SA1 change: Spoiler 1. The health requirement from the old version is way too limiting for the effects. Even though Firefly has pretty decent HP for a Painwheel variant, the healing will only ever heal her up to 50%, which is not going to help her last all that much. 2. PW now heals from the start, as soon as she starts blocking. 4% HP per sec is honestly not too strong, given that she has to block to obtain it, so it's a fair tradeoff. 3. The effect however, is significantly better now once she gains Enrage. PW has 2 easy and reliable sources of Enrage. Those being her Taunt (SMILE!) and BlockBuster 1 (HATRED INSTALL). 4. On Rifts, it's even better, as there are Enrage based Catalysts, allowing her to easily tap into the enhanced HP regen. 5. Support variants that grant Enrage also work great on her, and make her more viable on offense too now.

Signature Ability 2​
Old Also gain 5/6/8% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second.​
New Also gain 2/3/4% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second. Effect is doubled while benefiting from ENRAGE.​
Reasons for SA2 change Spoiler 1. Pretty much the same arguments as those for SA1. 2. Given she can now immediately start building BB Meter while defending, she's far better on offense, and significantly scarier on defense, as she can reach Tier 3 BB much sooner. 3. Enrage based supports, make Firefly also much more viable on offense, thanks to more reliable BB meter gain

 

[SvenZ]

Suggestion has been properly formatted

 

[SvenZ]

Suggestion Re-reworked. I think I'll reserve the Enrage benefits for another variant.

Firefly now constantly recovers HP and gains BB Meter while blocking. Effects of both are doubled while under 50% HP.

The value for HP regen and Meter gain while under 50% is lower, compared to old Firefly. However, combined with the fact that you can start building meter faster, and that you can heal to full, it's a worth it trade off in my opinion

 

[Aoskull]

Suggestion Re-reworked. I think I'll reserve the Enrage benefits for another variant.

Firefly now constantly recovers HP and gains BB Meter while blocking. Effects of both are doubled while under 50% HP.

The value for HP regen and Meter gain while under 50% is lower, compared to old Firefly. However, combined with the fact that you can start building meter faster, and that you can heal to full, it's a worth it trade off in my opinion

Hi there, I’m here again! Nice rework you got there! However, it seems that it’s a little shame that both sigs are very similar but separated. Here’s my new suggestion.

Firefly
Sig1 - While blocking, gain 1/2/3% HEALTH and BB METER per second. Effect is doubled while below 50% HEALTH.

Sig2 - BLOCK PROFICIENCY increases by 15/20/25%. Effect is doubled while below 50% Health.

• I combined Sig 1 and 2 into one, and also incorporated a suggestion I made previously as Sig 2.

• Really good idea to remove the HP limit from the recovery and BB meter! It's great that the previous elements are still there. However, I feel like this is still not enough adjustment. This applies to all of Painwheel, but her HP is really low, so even if you block against opponent’s attack, you will likely be killed by chipping damage, especially in high difficulty modes.

• In my opinion, blocking is her strong point, increase block proficiency would be a good adjustment. This is same with my previous suggestion, but this one is stronger! In this sig2, increasing BP while below half HP is 50% (No change), but you can get 25% BP while above half HP too!

• This will allow her to play more defensively and stably than ever before, without any limitations on HP. Still, she is Painwheel and has high ATK, It is possible to make her shine in offense and also take measures for broken guard when you equip her 2nd marquee!!

 

[SvenZ]

Hi there, I’m here again! Nice rework you got there! However, it seems that it’s a little shame that both sigs are very similar but separated. Here’s my new suggestion.

Firefly
Sig1 - While blocking, gain 1/2/3% HEALTH and BB METER per second. Effect is doubled while below 50% HEALTH.

Sig2 - BLOCK PROFICIENCY increases by 15/20/25%. Effect is doubled while below 50% Health.

• I combined Sig 1 and 2 into one, and also incorporated a suggestion I made previously as Sig 2.

• Really good idea to remove the HP limit from the recovery and BB meter! It's great that the previous elements are still there. However, I feel like this is still not enough adjustment. This applies to all of Painwheel, but her HP is really low, so even if you block against opponent’s attack, you will likely be killed by chipping damage, especially in high difficulty modes.

• In my opinion, blocking is her strong point, increase block proficiency would be a good adjustment. This is same with my previous suggestion, but this one is stronger! In this sig2, increasing BP while below half HP is 50% (No change), but you can get 25% BP while above half HP too!

• This will allow her to play more defensively and stably than ever before, without any limitations on HP. Still, she is Painwheel and has high ATK, It is possible to make her shine in offense and also take measures for broken guard when you equip her 2nd marquee!!

I actually like that quite bit! Would make building up that stat a lot easier, and will provide freedom to the user to play around with other stats. Also makes her more favorable for new players, which is good as she's a lot of people's first gold PW. Not too strong, but definitely not smth to sneeze at

 

[SvenZ]

After some consideration, I reworked Signature Ability 2 to be more offensive oriented. The increased block proficiency is nice, and yes, you will be blocking a lot, but it doesn't compliment PW's general game plan. That's why I increased it with Enrage, so she utilize that generated chunk of meter for a very powerful Blockbuster counter. Or a very deadly Pinion Dash

Signature Ability 2​
Old Also gain 5/6/8% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second.​
New Gain ENRAGE every second while BLOCKING. Enrage lasts 6/8/10 seconds​
Reasons for SA2 change Spoiler 1. It does take a while to gain full stacks of Enrage, but even so, it can result in a very powerful Pinion Dash as a counter. This change also compliments the increased BB Meter generation. You can reach BB3 a lot faster, and as a result deal a good chunk of damage to the opponent, giving Firefly both a good defensive and offensive edge.

Previous version can be found here:

Spoiler: changelog

Remake ver 3​

Signature Ability 2​
Old Also gain 5/6/8% BLOCKBUSTER METER per second.​
New BLOCK PROFICIENCY is increased by 15/20/25%. Effect is doubled while below 50% Health.​
Reasons for SA2 change Spoiler 1. Increase Block Proficiency synergizes with her gameplan. Block as much as possible. This frees up another stat that the player can invest in, improving her utility on both offense and defense.

 

[SvenZ]

Bump. Feedback is appreciated

 

[Kheul]

Looks decent on paper. Though I think her gameplay would feel like a downgraded Unfazed. I mainly use Unfazed in rifts to defeat opponents with the least contact. It pretty much goes like this: bounce foes on the wall and wait as they will wear themselves down and finish them with Blockbuster. But this one? She will also block, gain health and meter; but she won't deal any damage or drain meter.

She definitely will have a good sustain of health and BB but she will be outclassed by Unfazed both in signature ability and as in character kit.

 

[SvenZ]

Looks decent on paper. Though I think her gameplay would feel like a downgraded Unfazed. I mainly use Unfazed in rifts to defeat opponents with the least contact. It pretty much goes like this: bounce foes on the wall and wait as they will wear themselves down and finish them with Blockbuster. But this one? She will also block, gain health and meter; but she won't deal any damage or drain meter.

She definitely will have a good sustain of health and BB but she will be outclassed by Unfazed both in signature ability and as in character kit.

Thank you for the feedback!

I don't think comparing her with Unfazed is really far. Unfazed relies on Miasma and is much more aggression focused. Plus Dahlia and PW offer really different kits to one another. I think it would be more fair to compare her to the rest of the PWs, more specifically the Gold ones.

Raw Nerv and Buzzkill are currently your offense focused raw damage characters. Raw Nerv has some early game utility in the form of Last Stand, which gives her some utility in that area as well (though for a short while).

Grim Fan is imo a very interesting support PW. Combined with Prism Plumage, you have arguably the most reliable source of revive (so long as both characters are alive). So she fits that odd niche.

Biting Cold is primarily a defender, however can be useful on Offense for landing the killing blow on enemies, or can be a BB Spam machine with 2 Rockstar supports.

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That leaves us with Firefly. She has little to no utility. Her usefulness quickly dies off after the early game, and that's due to both of her SAs triggering while under 50%. So you can't heal over that amount and you can't gain meter until you reach that. Given that she has no safety net to keep her alive after taking damage (excluding Val support and some variants), her SAs and relatively weak stats make her a deadweight character.

The change here aims to make her better on both offense and on defense. But, keep her rather tame and not overshadow the rest of the golds ( I don't support overbuffing, as that leads to powercreep in a game).

The values may not seem big, but considering how often you simply block in neutral, you will end up gaining a good chunk of meter and your health back. That will allow you to use BB3 more often, and combined with the Enrage it will compensate for her low damage
________________________________________________________

I honestly think the current values are fine, but I may be overestimating them.
So I increased the Regen/BB Meter gain from 1/2/3% to 2/3/4%

 

[Kheul]

Thank you for the feedback!

You are welcome!

I think it would be more fair to compare her to the rest of the PWs

Our approach is different, but I see where you are coming from.

Here is how I think when I do these kind of stuff: I wouldn't base my reworks on the character itself, or to be exact a character like Painwheel. She is a really outdated character as a whole, I think she needs a rework like Big Band had. Also both Dahlia and Painwheel are in the same game, so same rules apply.

more specifically the Gold ones

Wouldn't that be way too limiting though. Rarity isn't a huge factor when deciding the power level of a variant. There are good variants in bronze and bad variants in diamond.

Raw Nerv and Buzzkill are currently your offense focused raw damage characters.

After the buff Raw Nerv and Buzzkill are leagues different, even Rusty and Freaky Friday are better than Buzzkill. They went crazy with the buffs when considering the Painwheel's standards. Final stand (survivability) Easy perma death mark (offense and support), lifesteal (offense and utility), enrage (offense). And she can proc the Final Stand and Perma Death Mark again and again, great signature ability overall. She isn't considered overpowered even with all of these though.

The change here aims to make her better on both offense and on defense. But, keep her rather tame and not overshadow the rest of the golds ( I don't support overbuffing, as that leads to powercreep in a game).

Sure, she would definitely be better, but what I was trying to say with my previous comment was: We already have Unfazed, why would I ever need to use Firefly? She doesn't do anything better than Unfazed, she doesn't have anything incentivizing to make me use Firefly over Unfazed. I utilize characters based on their usage which is based on the combination of their signature ability and character kit as a whole. Firefly as a whole (not just as a Painwheel) just feels like a downgraded Unfazed, even though they are both gold.

I hope ya won't get me wrong I'm just saying what is on my mind, and I can be quite picky when it comes to variants sometimes, see ya around!

 

[SvenZ]

You are welcome!


Our approach is different, but I see where you are coming from.

Here is how I think when I do these kind of stuff: I wouldn't base my reworks on the character itself, or to be exact a character like Painwheel. She is a really outdated character as a whole, I think she needs a rework like Big Band had. Also both Dahlia and Painwheel are in the same game, so same rules apply.

I really think it should be though. I fully agree that she's outdated, but if we make a variant who's too good, after a subsequent remake it will be imbalanced and call for an immediate nerf. This may sound fine on paper, but a lot of players won't really be satisfied with that.

Wouldn't that be way too limiting though. Rarity isn't a huge factor when deciding the power level of a variant. There are good variants in bronze and bad variants in diamond.

Fair point. The comparison should be with all Painwheels, not just the golds

Sure, she would definitely be better, but what I was trying to say with my previous comment was: We already have Unfazed, why would I ever need to use Firefly? She doesn't do anything better than Unfazed, she doesn't have anything incentivizing to make me use Firefly over Unfazed. I utilize characters based on their usage which is based on the combination of their signature ability and character kit as a whole. Firefly as a whole (not just as a Painwheel) just feels like a downgraded Unfazed, even though they are both gold.

Again, I don't agree with the Unfazed comparison. Both are fundamentally different. Kit, effects and playstyle in order to utilize set effects. The closest thing to this rework would be Neuromancer and Biting Cold with Rockstar support. And again, the playstyle for that is different.

Unfazed - you have to offensive and fish out a wall bounce. You want the opponent to be preferably near the wall for best consistency.

Neuromancer - you rely on chipping down the opponent in order to spam your BBs. You preferably want to be in close range.

Biting Cold - you want to be on top of the opponent's dead bodies at all times. The corner is most consistent, but depending on the match-up you can adjust that accordingly.

Firefly (remake) - you want to stay away from the opponent and block while you charge up your Blockbusters. You preferably would want to have a pinion dash to knockback the opponent and then back off or utilize Bolga Stinger to halt opponent advances or snapback to gain more time to charge up.

Fundamentally, all 4 characters have a way to build BB meter, however all 4 do it in a different way.

As for why would you pick Firefly over Unfazed. In most cases I honestly would pick Unfazed over every single Painwheel and then some

I hope ya won't get me wrong I'm just saying what is on my mind, and I can be quite picky when it comes to variants sometimes, see ya around!

Not at all! I love feedback, and a thorough discussion is the only way to best analyze potential drawbacks

 

[Kheul]

Unfazed - you have to offensive and fish out a wall bounce. You want the opponent to be preferably near the wall for best consistency.

I just turtle with Unfazed, I'm mostly hugging the wall at my part of the stage as you can bounce them on wall anywhere with Buckshot or tag out move.

Firefly (remake) - you want to stay away from the opponent and block while you charge up your Blockbusters. You preferably would want to have a pinion dash to knockback the opponent and then back off or utilize Bolga Stinger to halt opponent advances or snapback to gain more time to charge up.

At first I didn't really consider Painwheel's BB3's effect, which is BB METER reduction. It should suffice as meter control, as long as you get your BB3 before enemy can, it is fine (and this version definitely will).

So you wanted to keep the opponent at a distance as you fill up your resources while blocking. I didn't know you planned to play her like that, I assumed it would be the same with Unfazed. In that case what do you think about adding something to her SA so it incentivizes that type of gameplay? Something like, "While Painwheel is far away from the opponent, transfers debuffs from self to the opponent every 2/1.5/1 second". That's just a flash of inspiration that came to me as I read your ideal gameplay style.

As for why would you pick Firefly over Unfazed. In most cases I honestly would pick Unfazed over every single Painwheel and then some

Yeah, current state of balance in the game is a mess, while it is not gamebreaking it just makes some characters unusable except for fun. This is the reason why I think it would be fine to give outdated characters relatively better signature abilities to compensate their lackluster kits as a character. And if they happen to get a whole character rework in the future, they can be nerfed if necessary, but I don't think they will be that overpowered anyways.

Not at all! I love feedback, and a thorough discussion is the only way to best analyze potential drawbacks

That's great!

 

[SvenZ]

I just turtle with Unfazed, I'm mostly hugging the wall at my part of the stage as you can bounce them on wall anywhere with Buckshot or tag out move.

That's very interesting! We both play Unfazed in a completely different way. My goal is to always keep the opponent in the corner and pressure them. I'll be happy if you can share some replays of your gameplay

 

[SvenZ]

I think changing regen and BB meter to 2/3/4% is fine. It will be much easier to make a comeback from a dangerous situations! But it can be more useful with simple change, here’s my suggestion for her!

Firefly
Sig1 - While blocking, gain 2/3/4% of HEALTH and BB METER per second. Effect is doubled while below 50% health.

Sig2 - BLOCK PROFICIENCY increases by 15/20/25%. Effect is doubled while below 50% health. Gain ENRAGE for 10 seconds every second while BLOCKING.

- I posted this in my previous thread, but I made simple change to your sig2: just combining with my suggestion.

- Enrage and BP will increase. although their individual performance is somewhat lacking, but they’ll become certainly powerful when combined together. With this change, it can be expect that she will become more stable with both offense and defense, something that most other Painwheels don't have.

- High streak PF or no mercy is full of enemies with unconventional atk, so chipping damage can be a worry for many offensive variants, but this change will solve that. It allows her for better performance in high difficulty modes!

I agree that enemies get much stronger in more difficult modes, but I don't think giving her Block Proficiency is the right call here. Compared to her old version we've resolved 2 issues:

1 - She can now regen and gain Blockbuster meter while above 50%
2 - She now also gains Enrage, improving her damage potential

The Block Proficiency is good, but it's a stat which I think the player themselves should invest in. You don't have to worry about Accuracy with this variant, and you can potentially go Critless, leaving you with the option to build up %HP and Block Proficiency if need be.

Adding that effect would be an overbuff, which may prove problematic if Painwheel as a whole receives a change or Block Proficiency as a stat receives a change.

I imagine 2 playstyle for her.

1st one where you turtle and keep the enemy at a distance and block for the BB meter or
2nd one, where you're more offensive and block on enemy knockdown

 

[Kheul]

I'll be happy if you can share some replays of your gameplay

Gotchu, I mostly use her against reflect damage matchups where I keep my direct at contact at the lowest level possible or boss nodes in parallel realms to cheese them, it is hard to find a specific matchup where she truly shines as I am done with parallel realms and it is early for me to start playing rift. But I can send a makeshift PF gameplay to show how I mostly play with her: 2ssg-1o9db1o

 

[SvenZ]

Gotchu, I mostly use her against reflect damage matchups where I keep my direct at contact at the lowest level possible or boss nodes in parallel realms to cheese them, it is hard to find a specific matchup where she truly shines as I am done with parallel realms and it is early for me to start playing rift. But I can send a makeshift PF gameplay to show how I mostly play with her: 2ssg-1o9db1o

Thanks, I checked the replay. I'm not sure if it's a replay bug, but none of the opponents seem to have moves equipped. I get the general game plan tho. If you're interested I'll share my playstyle later today when I finish work

 

[Kheul]

Thanks, I checked the replay. I'm not sure if it's a replay bug, but none of the opponents seem to have moves equipped. I get the general game plan tho. If you're interested I'll share my playstyle later today when I finish work

Nope it wasn't a bug, I would not play that way if they had a command grab or something else like that, I chose that matchup just to show my gameplay style and sure I'll check it out.

 

[SvenZ]

Nope it wasn't a bug, I would not play that way if they had a command grab or something else like that, I chose that matchup just to show my gameplay style and sure I'll check it out.

Heya, I was pretty busy at work and forgot to get back to you. These are the 2 playstyles I generally use when playing Unfazed