1. [2018/06/22]
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Other Rift matchmaking based on power level is backfiring in upper ranks

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by Yujipooji, May 12, 2019.

  1. Liam

    Liam !Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    I have a lot more to say (I'll be back!) but real quick - DUEL is exactly what you're describing. You fight against the highest level of AI for 0 energy. Go find a Diamond in chat and ask them to set a specific Fighter you want to practice against!
     
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  2. Jaz00

    Jaz00 Active Member

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    This requires that I turn chat on and socialize! *gulp
    I imagine that once we get the Guild feature it would be easier to coordinate these things!
     
  3. Liam

    Liam !Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    You can arrange the duels in the Skullgirls Discord and then ask to meet them in a channel. That's what I do sometimes.
     
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  4. Yujipooji

    Yujipooji New Member

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    I’m glad to see players speaking up about this.

    FYI the suffering works on both ends .. i’m currently diamond 1, and i am constantly getting matched with the top players and losing 14-15 points. Then i match with another really strong player who is 100 rift points below me, and even if i do barely win, i earn 7-9 points and if i lose (very likely because they’re strong), i lose like 18-20 points. Meanwhile i see people climb to d1 or higher and have never met any of the top players (nothing against them, but this is just wrong)..

    Climbing is really difficult when you have a strong base unless you are in gamma, odd or gunz’s position where they can beat practically everyone. Even then some players have it easier than them, because they get matched with each other quite often and it becomes a tossup.
     
  5. Jaz00

    Jaz00 Active Member

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    Similar situations here last week and this week. I kept getting matched with the same couple of Gold 2/D4 players with stronger base than mine. It’s a lot of efforts to beat them to earn 8 points or so. Then I’d lose a bunch of points to Megatron because he’s in high 1900s :/
     
  6. Brother Null

    Brother Null Active Member

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    If I had a goal in this conversation, Liam, it is this:

    I need you to see that, by restricting matchups using “team strength” you have effectively created a shadow tier system from which it is impossible to break free. This creates the perverse incentive to avoid improving your team strength at all costs in order to stay inside the easier tiers.

    I dedicated a large part of my time in SGM to building up my team because I thought team strength would give me an advantage. But we are in a position now where diamond evolution, skill tree expansion, and Prize Fight grinding are just further reducing my ability to compete in Rift Battles.

    That, that perverse incentive to not build your team, is what I need you to understand. It has distorted this game beyond my capacity to enjoy it.
     
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  7. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    I don't know if this is a temporary system that buys enough time to actually make a better practice mode or the most optimal practice method the devs can think of but it has many flaws. First, asking diamond to set up a duel in a discord chat is a hassle for many players especially if someone does not have time for setting that up or does not want to socialize with other players. Second, the game does not tells players about this at all and therefore not many knows about that. Third, this method is so cumbersome that even people knew about it, it would not be widely use as intended. Forth, that is basically using diamond players as some staff member who specialize in providing training dummies for others.

    Please don't widely tell people to ask with diamonds to set up practice round. Catalyst has already done the damage and saying that nonsense to players will only bring more ridicule and PR nightmare. Just make a practice mode that allows players to set various modifiers and other settings to test out their forces before fighting the actual opponent. That is just the best way to solve this one issue.
     
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  8. Gerhop

    Gerhop New Member

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    I'm not going to discuss a troubles of someone in D1 tier, as a bronze 2 player, but I'm really agree with that statement. While i have some weak and mostly useless modifiers of bronze tier, i've matched up against player with the nearly same fighter strength, but much more powerful catalysts. I believe it was a gold water armor and gold armor rating on upper boss node, like, imagine, 25% and 10% chances respectively of getting armor on hit. Man, I swear, it was insane! Like, I wasn't even able to kill at least one of those fighters with my strongest units (gold cold stones and gold bassline) because of that! That player had brain freeze, dead of winter and some another gold water fighter on that node, can't remember now who exactly was the third. I didn't even have a chance, u know, and that was a really depressing matchup. So, yeah, catalysts totally should go hand-in-hand with overall base strength calculations.
     
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  9. Yujipooji

    Yujipooji New Member

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    not sure if that was null’s point.. the real problem is that people are getting matched by strength to begin with. it causes an awkward situation where strong players are being punished for being strong with much more difficult matchups regardless of rank.
     
  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    Uhm I have reached rookie tier simply through decay. Cus I can’t get a match up. Cus I’m my collection is too strong for my rank.
    Oh and btw. I used to OCD stealth click every player in chat and duel their diamond 2 updates ago. I don’t feel duel ai is any harder than pf ai. Unless there was a change recently. That nobody knew.
     
  11. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    A53FF60F-F09D-45DE-AB96-10D843A22D96.png Behold thine eyes.
    I will reach the fabled 3-digit soon
     
  12. educavalcantee

    educavalcantee Active Member

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    Maybe you don't feel that the duel IA is harder because there isn't the pressure of doing a perfect match? Never tried it, just guessing.
     
  13. Brother Null

    Brother Null Active Member

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    There are no modifiers. There is nothing to support or extend the defenders innate capabilities, so there is no real challenge. Rifts can still surprise with catalysts, but I also agree that Rift AI feels sharper than duel AI.
     
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  14. Jaz00

    Jaz00 Active Member

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    Agreed. I tried Duel AI out for about an hour and did not once encounter Rift-level AI.
     
  15. jamar

    jamar New Member

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    Here's my take on what happened. Pre-update, there was a matchmaking problem: Players were getting matched with other players who had similar rift ratings but different collection strengths. This prompted the most simple solution: Use collection strength as a metric when generating rift matchups. But this created a new matchmaking problem: Now players are getting matched with other players who have similar collection strengths but different rift ratings.

    I think this happened because the collection strength metric was used offensively instead of defensively in order to combat the initial problem. Used defensively, if a situation like the initial matchmaking problem were to occur, collection strengths would prevent that from happening, likely resulting in longer wait times for matches for those players. But used offensively, the problem was overcorrected and caused the inverse problem, lowering the significance of the entire rating system.
    *Edited for spacing
     
  16. Yujipooji

    Yujipooji New Member

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    This is more or less what happened, and the results are beyond unfair. Top 20 of rift is now divided into 2 groups: the strongest players, and those with decent catalysts but with a collection strength low enough to dodge the strongest players. Furthermore, there are people good enough for top 3 unable to even break past diamond 2 coz of matchmaking.
     
  17. Liam

    Liam !Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    Just going to cross post our Rift Battle notes from this thread here in case they haven't been seen:

    We'll have more news about the exact solution(s) going live once we're a bit closer to our 3.3. release, and the update notes are live.
     
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  18. Brother Null

    Brother Null Active Member

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    This is why I continue to play SGM; you guys are awesome!
     
  19. Yujipooji

    Yujipooji New Member

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    there’s a level 70 player who decayed to rookie unable to find matches who is defs waiting for this update
     
  20. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    E5EBB0BE-65FD-43CA-B9E9-BBDEBB980C31.png Am I being called out? :D
    I’m sure eagerly waiting for that update. (1045last week. Three digit sooooon)
     

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