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Pointlessly Overpowered Abilities Take the Fun Out of This Game

Ryouhi

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the reason why you cant really change the fs calculation right now is because a lot of things (exp gain and prize fight points in particular) scale off fs, both yours and your opponents

matchmaking prize fights becomes significantly harder once a modified fs gets included (though its always possible to have a modified fs in brackets next to the actual fs), and it just serves to put those who are ahead, more ahead.

another issue with it is how you actually calculate this modified fs, i did some calculations a while ago trying to find the optimal stats to get the maximum fs, and it was just stacking %atk. clearly this isnt true because everyone knows that 50% defense is the most important stat to have, but even with using ehp for the calculation, stacking attack is still the "best way" to optimize efs.

the system will have to take into account expected attack, effective hp, as well as resistances in a "fair" way as to not skew the system to favor certain builds just for the sake of minmaxing efs, which is over the top and unnecessary right now, as i said, because it only serves to put those ahead, more ahead.

taking into account global buffs also makes it a bit of a shitshow, considering that harlequin's passive is irrelevant if your dont use (a lot of) specials, but immensely powerful if you have, say, a 5 george peacock or a 5 mgr bella, and this variable fs system would also mean that fs will also be changing mid-fight, as you take out buff fighters, or even as you apply debuffs like armor break

in order to minimize the complications this brings, i think the current fs system is fine, albeit could use some tinkering (for instance i dont believe crit and defense nodes on the skill tree increase your fs)
Good points.

Still, there should be some way for players to discern how hard an enemy team is going to be compared to another, since stat bonuses make a huge difference
 

Tetarti

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I don't know if this is too much, but maybe have an info button next to a team so you could check their stats.
 

bobtehnoob

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Good points.

Still, there should be some way for players to discern how hard an enemy team is going to be compared to another, since stat bonuses make a huge difference
as i mentioned, an "effective fs" stat in brackets beside the base fs could help, but then weighting each stat buff properly becomes a chore and a pain to do accurately, a dropdown/info button clutters the enemy team selection screen, and waiting til during the fight to pause is often too late to realize that you're screwed
 

Luke

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Wouldn't the unknow suprise factor be kinda fun? I dont know what im up against, low lvl fully unlocked skill tree, or would this team have high lvl moves that decemate my team with two exp sponge?
This just feels like getting a new gold move and wonder does it have the buff i need? The gamble.
 

BrolaireOfAsstora

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I do believe the devs mentioned that they do eventually want to implement a feature to make it so we can see a breakdown of opponent stats. Don't quote me on that though.


Even if crit and defense nodes increased FS, every fighter has those nodes so it wouldn't change the balance of the FS system at all if they were factored in. The game is already pretty easy with the current system. Because max FS is based purely on a fighter's base attack and HP, natural gold fighters will always dominate. A lot of the best team compositions can't show up.

Here's the general train of thought I take when I pick my team to display in PF. Do I want to play a team with synergy? Teams with synergy have lower FS though. Do I want to play a high FS team to increase chances of opponents finding my team? If I don't play high FS, people won't see my team as often. I should just play my highest FS team and throw away team synergy. Okay fine. I'll play Armed Forces, Harlequin, and Wulfsbane.

Here's an example to demonstrate this thought process.

Let's say I have a team with Understudy, Harlequin, and Wulfsbane. They all have 50% atk, HP, and def. The max FS for this under the current FS calculation would put my total team FS at 29.7k. Ok pretty good. However, I also have an Armed Forces with terrible move stats. If I switched out Understudy for Armed Forces I'd have a total FS of 32.3k. While the total FS might have increased, the actual threat of the team has significantly decreased because I sacrificed team synergy and the game failed to account for the bonus HP and Atk on my Understudy in FS calculations.

If bonus stats were taken into account in the FS calculations, people could share actual teams that they've invested into the stats of instead of just cobbling together a team of a bunch of fighters just because they have high base stats. I want my Buzzkill to be on my defense team so everyone can see how much work I put into her, but since she has only 10.2k FS at max if I put her on my team it lowers the chance of people seeing my team since she'll be drowned out by all the people running Harlequin, Armed Forces, and Wulfsbane.

While you're right that this new modified FS formula I'm suggesting would benefit end-game players by increasing their potential XP gains and PF score gains, as I mentioned in my original post it also benefits early/mid game players because they're more likely to be matched up against teams closer to their own team's power.

Probably the biggest reason I think this change would be beneficial is because I want to face a greater variety of opponents. I'm tired of only facing the same 4 people all the time (diaz, moist, channing, and nateville). I'm sure there are others out there with teams that could be showing up if the game actually factored their bonus stats into the FS equation. But instead we just see the same people on top all the time because they run teams with the fighters with the highest natural FS.
Don't use your best teams. Use your crappier fighters and enjoy the challenge again. I'm sure it'd be interesting to deal with almost insultingly weak people again to you.
 

BrolaireOfAsstora

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I don't use my best teams regularly. I only use them once so that they appear in PF for defense. I have the most fun when I get to play with my Buzzkill because of how much time and money I've invested in upgrading her moves. The game is still challenging sometimes, but playing against a bunch of teams that only pick from a pool of 4 characters is boring. Variety is the spice of life, and there isn't any variety in the current end game.
Minmaxing isn't an easily accessible thing to most people, which translates to most people not being able to reach your tier. I agree there needs to be more variety, just so people like you don't get bored, but at the same time it's not easy. Perhaps a mechanic to let you reroll stats on a move like in splatoon would help?
 

bobtehnoob

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part of the issue is that not all level 50 golds with maxed skill trees have the same fs, resulting in having to fight harlequin all the time because she happens to be the fighter with the highest fs when maxed. even if i maxed my team of 2x resonant evil and 1x twisted mettle, it wouldnt appear to any of the highest level fighters because once you can see my team, you can also see all the other 31k+ teams up there because its always highest fs
might be a balance thing, might be a "we need to redo the fs calculations" thing, but i dont think that all maxed gold 50s are supposed to have the same fs, nor is the game supposed to be balanced beyond "one fighter is blatantly way too powerful" because there are way too many variables at play
 

Snow

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part of the issue is that not all level 50 golds with maxed skill trees have the same fs, resulting in having to fight harlequin all the time because she happens to be the fighter with the highest fs when maxed. even if i maxed my team of 2x resonant evil and 1x twisted mettle, it wouldnt appear to any of the highest level fighters because once you can see my team, you can also see all the other 31k+ teams up there because its always highest fs
might be a balance thing, might be a "we need to redo the fs calculations" thing, but i dont think that all maxed gold 50s are supposed to have the same fs, nor is the game supposed to be balanced beyond "one fighter is blatantly way too powerful" because there are way too many variables at play
A simple solution for this would be for us to be able to choose our defense teams.
Otherwise, every team will end up with 3x Cerebella/Armed Forces simply because they have the highest FS available in the game atm :3 :3 :3

I also have the opposing view to this thread. High damage = faster fights and turnarounds and makes games more exciting.

Has anyone actually fought a 10k Armed Forces who keeps stacking 5 shields with 100% HP 50% defence? It's near impossible to beat without the right champion.

High damage is what makes this game exciting. High defense and low damage is the opposite gameplay.

No one enjoys fights that takes 3 minutes to beat where you constantly have to armour break. Bore.
 

bobtehnoob

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it doesnt actually matter if we can choose our defense teams, because the matchmaker forces us to fight the strongest three teams available, so if one person's triple bella team goes away, another will replace it
 

Barney

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Letting us choose defence teams = Resonant Evils, Armed Forces and Untouchables everywhere. The current system isn't amazing but it would look like heaven compared to that.
 
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bobtehnoob

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Letting us choose defence teams = Resonant Evils, Armed Forces and Untouchables everywhere. The current system isn't amazing but it would look like heaven compared to that.
i already have a team of 2x resonant evil and a 50% defense twisted mettle, and i have a level 50 armed forces i can max out defensive tree for, its not going to show up though because it doesnt have the fs
 

Snow

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i already have a team of 2x resonant evil and a 50% defense twisted mettle, and i have a level 50 armed forces i can max out defensive tree for, its not going to show up though because it doesnt have the fs

Armed forces can have 10.6k FS

Unless you have 3 x 11.1k harlequins?
 

Snow

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its not showing up because of all the harlequin/armed forces teams out there

You're highest 3 characters show up as you're defense team.

If you have a 10.6k Armed forces it will show up :3 :3 :3

Unless you have 3 x 11.1k harlequins which will then this will show up instead

:3

:3

:3
 

bobtehnoob

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You're highest 3 characters show up as you're defense team.

If you have a 10.6k Armed forces it will show up :3 :3 :3

Unless you have 3 x 11.1k harlequins which will then this will show up instead

:3

:3

:3
thats not how it works, lol
 

Shawesome

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um yes it is.
It's the team you last used with the highest fs. So if I used a bronze scrub, a Parasite Weave and Raw Nerv, that would be the team I have for my defense until the fs is higher. If I replaced the scrub with my Diva, my team for defense would change. And it would stay that way unless i used someone even stronger, so it wouldn't go back to having that scrub if I used her again.
 

Snow

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It's the team you last used with the highest fs. So if I used a bronze scrub, a Parasite Weave and Raw Nerv, that would be the team I have for my defense until the fs is higher. If I replaced the scrub with my Diva, my team for defense would change. And it would stay that way unless i used someone even stronger, so it wouldn't go back to having that scrub if I used her again.

Are you sure about this?

I am 99% sure I read somewhere this rule was changed and your defense team now comprises of your TOP 3 FS characters, regardless of last fight :3 :3 :3

It also matches what I've seen in game. I only ever see the top 3 of each characters team as well.

E.g. Moisterrific will always have 1 Armed Forces, 1 Cerebella and 1 Eliza because that is his top 3 characters.

I've played over 300 fights and seeing him 300 times in the last few weeks is no coincidence they changed it to being the TOP 3 FS characters.

Hopefully a mod can confirm so no more misinformation is spread.

:3

:3

:3
 

Snow

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We're sure. You're likely misinterpreting what you've read.

If I have 3 maxed harlequins, a maxed Wulfsbane, and a maxed Armed Forces, the game will not automatically display the 3 Harlequin team by default. I actually have to play that team in PF to make it my defense team. However, I'd rather play Harlequin, Wulfsbane, and Armed Forces since Armed Forces is powerful on defense and Wulfsbane is uhh cool.

It's as Shawesome said. The highest FS team that you've actually played in that particular PF will be shown.

A lot of people just so happen to actually deploy their 3 highest FS characters as a team because higher FS teams have greater visibility in PF.

Okay I understand it now.

My bad :3

I just thought it was strange the same 4-5 players I see in PF in the past 2-3 months have the exact same fighters every time :3
Thankyou for taking the time to explain.
 
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