Rift battle general discussion

[vucaar]

Ok now the time has passed, I played the mode against a lot of users I guess I can share some thoughts about rift battles:

1. I think the "Sacrosanct" modifier is outrageous in the boss node, one of the "supposed RPG" elements (read description in Play Store if you don't believe me) about this game is to play with ailments or debuffs, build such a strategy so, okay, I can't win with raw power, I can try it with debuffs but if you have a lock with elements, you are closing that chance and becoming a pure power node, something boring if you ask me.

So, if I don't have the specific character with the right element also I will have to eat the debuffs back.

Idea / Suggestion?: I have 2.
a. Maintain the sacrosanct modifier but reduce the bonus atk and hp of the node to 150%, I would like to have only 100% but that's an ideal situation and a dream to be honest.
b. Change the sacrosanct modifier to have a chance to reflect when you are not at elem advantage instead of being a 100%, maybe a 35% of chance would be good. That opens a lot of possibilities

Look, I'm not complaining about "Jinx", I am talking about "Sacrosanct".

2. I describe three weird situations:
A: The other day I used "Grab Bag" against Parasoul and the BB3 missed (and I don't know why) so Parasoul, and I remember well, started to do air juggle (air combo) and then she did a BB (Silent Scope), the invincible frames saved me but hey... give it a break, you were hit just a moment ago, first, why my BB3 failed? and then, why the AI can still act when a BB3 is working?
B. The lovely and classic BB intervention from AI between a legal combo because....... the AI wants?. If you are reading this, maybe it happened to you, being hit by an Excelebella, or Super Sonic Jazz, by Buer Thresher or the Countervenom while you are hitting or doing a legit combo (yellow numbers, not red) because the AI wish and can reach too fast to make the input between hits.
C. Being hit with a single swipe down attack (Cerebella) instead of hit with Countervenom, today happened to me, I always hit with Countervenom when I used that BB, but today Countervenom misses and get hit by that swipe down attack of Cerebella, why?

I get bothered but I can understand the "excesive" and defensive Squigly or Double, the aggresive Double, the aggresive and speed of Beouwulf or Valentine AI, etcetera etcetera, yeah, it would feel that it's unfair but you can be in that way too, it's possible for an human in other words, but when it's something that AI can do because it reacts too fast (impossible for the player) and game doesn't lock that, I think that's something you have to give it a check.

Idea / suggestion: I never liked the "invincible frames" of the BBs, a way to interrupt them with special moves or some normal attacks (it doesn't have to be all of them, just some, a similar situation that happens with Ms. Fortune) would give a balance, but I know it won't change.

3. Loss penalty: I have seen that you lose more points playing than not playing rift battles () . I think you will have to reduce the amount of points that you lose each time you are defeated, sometimes the punishment is excesive to the point that people can lose the rank or tier they have, playing the mode and people that doesn't play, conserve or even, get an upgrade because they didn't lose so much points.

P.S: Despite the middle node can be really annoying (and more when you place a Resonant Evil there), I don't have any problem with it, well, maybe to reduce to 5% would be the ideal situation (considering the damage sponge characters you can place on that node).

 

[educavalcantee]

What would people think of a mini boss node that boosted hp and atk by 100% but instead of modifies the defensive fighters were hidden from the attacker. This would be like in story missions where you get random defenders but instead they arent random but rather pre assigned just hidden from the attacker. I think this would be a cool way to be able to make it hard to counter defensive variants, well the lack of a modifier would keep the node from being impossible. Im not sure though it could either end up as a fun cat and mouse game as you try and guess how to counter your opponents fighters or might just be rng fueled meh.

But the FS would be hidden like in story mode? If it's this way, it opens space to strategies that you just put a lv 1 character to make your opponent lose a fighter. Personally, I wouldn't like it. You think that could happen?

 

[Zachary Baumstark]

But the FS would be hidden like in story mode? If it's this way, it opens space to strategies that you just put a lv 1 character to make your opponent lose a fighter. Personally, I wouldn't like it. You think that could happen?

Good point. I think the fs should be shown and maybe even the fs of each individual fighter, just not the varient

 

[Reshiram18]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095513796364226560
In version 3.1 the stamina system for Rift Battles is being changed. Instead of being usable once before being drained, fighters can be used twice before being drained. However the option to refresh fighters with theonite has been removed. There will also be bonus points attached to using a fighter for the first time in any given Rift Battle. What do you all think of these changes?

 

[xcapibara]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095513796364226560
In version 3.1 the stamina system for Rift Battles is being changed. Instead of being usable once before being drained, fighters can be used twice before being drained. However the option to refresh fighters with theonite has been removed. There will also be bonus points attached to using a fighter for the first time in any given Rift Battle. What do you all think of these changes?

A second chance to bang your team against some wall at no cost but also works for the other player. Less 0 attempts nodes and more 2 attempts instead. Meh. Call me when they reduce the boss node atk/hp modifier to 100% or remove sacrosanct.

 

[Beldr447]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095513796364226560
In version 3.1 the stamina system for Rift Battles is being changed. Instead of being usable once before being drained, fighters can be used twice before being drained. However the option to refresh fighters with theonite has been removed. There will also be bonus points attached to using a fighter for the first time in any given Rift Battle. What do you all think of these changes?

A very good change, refreshing with theo was dumb and you can still play like before.

A second chance to bang your team against some wall at no cost but also works for the other player. Less 0 attempts nodes and more 2 attempts instead. Meh. Call me when they reduce the boss node atk/hp modifier to 100% or remove sacrosanct.

Why would you want to remove sactosanct or reduce the hp/atk modifier?
Boss node is supposed to be hard, without either of that things it becomes a trivial fight.

 

[Inked]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095513796364226560
In version 3.1 the stamina system for Rift Battles is being changed. Instead of being usable once before being drained, fighters can be used twice before being drained. However the option to refresh fighters with theonite has been removed. There will also be bonus points attached to using a fighter for the first time in any given Rift Battle. What do you all think of these changes?

just looking at the energy adjustment i can’t really say anything about it. i think we’ll have to see how well it works (or if it doesn’t work well at all) when the update comes out. personally i think the adjustment will be most helpful to people with a small amount of fighters that are actually able to fight on some of the harder rift nodes - or in some cases refight

 

[xcapibara]

Why would you want to remove sactosanct or reduce the hp/atk modifier?
Boss node is supposed to be hard, without either of that things it becomes a trivial fight.

Because: 1) like vucaar posted above, it puts the debuff play behind element locks, 2) its unbalanced as it benefits certain elements more than others given the current variarions available, eg debuff dark elements with lights, pfft, 3) the matchmaking doesn’t take into account the max fs of fighters available to a players defense: +200% on maxed diamons is not the same for maxed golds or mid diamonds, therefore you are matched with people with 40k fs higher boss node than your own boss node, 4) +200% hp can drag the fight too long when there is no, or very limited, debuffs at play increasing losses by time out, 5) such limitations privilege certain variation a lot more than others, which is all just random chance if you have them or not, 6) under those conditions and given ai behavior, certain fighters and combinations are very overpowered; such as maxed bio exorcist + surgeon general, 7) all of the above combined.

 

[Beldr447]

Wait, you guys think Bio exorcist is good on def?
Bio is countered super easy with any big band rushing her before she can charge.

As for light debuffers you have That's all folks to inflict armor break and hit hard, rusty for her bleeds, Epic sax with the stun moves, Headstrong also have good armor break chance and the 2 nat diamonds too.
You have options to deal with dark fighters no problem.

For any team with surgeon general outtake moves work great to bring her to front and kill her first.

On the point of max fs fighters, what you guys exactly suggest?
Disregard rift rank completely and use only fs?
What you mention it is a natural effect at low ranking since everyone starts at the same rift score and it takes some time to rise up in ranks.
And what is the point of taking into account max fighter fs?
When rifts started I had 3 really good fighters, but everyone else was just crap if rift taked fs into account on matchmaking I would get matched with players way above my own level just because I focused on few fighters and that is not a good system at all.
What tends to cause this is people deranking so they can get easier wins.

For the hp/atk modifiers I might be biased since I am used to those ones for high streaks, but lowering them would make boss nodes at high rank trivial. The problem is at higher rank you have way more fighters to counter the boss node and the only thing that makes it difficult is the extra hp.
I can say for sure that no boss node at diamond 4 would be menacing if they lowered the stat modifiers.

 

[educavalcantee]

One is using the element specific modifiers(like season's beating) or character specific modifiers instead of this stupid Sacrosanct. It should be more appropriate for something that is strategically challenging and makes you think of how to compose your boss node using different combinations of elements.

I like the idea of element based modifiers. It opens space to many different strategies.

 

[Beldr447]

Sure sure you can counter them to certain degree but you are missing my point. Can you think of any other defense character way better than Surgeon General and Bio exorcist? This is the problem not just about how difficult it is: It is the problem of less diversity in boss node. It shouldn't be like it is always good to put SG or Bio in any defense composition in Boss node.

Surgeon is the best support fighter on all the game, so she is going to be good no matter how you change any modifier.
I can think of a lot of fighters that pair better with surgeon, Resonant Evil, Armed forces, Untouchable...
Any defensive fighter is good when used with a surgeon, and you are not going to change that in any way.
You guys are just complaining that defensive variants are hard when you get similar fights or even stronger ones on pf.

 

[Beldr447]

If we make a modifier that penalize you from having a buff or, especially, heal like I proposed above, then it would be not suitable to use surgeon in that case.

If you penalise buffs (like in Squigly PF for example) you just make almost all defensive variants useless, and what is the point of having a boss node if you make most defensive variants useless? Rift battles are supposed to be where defensive variants shine, what is the point of making nodes that just don't work with defensive fighters?

The reason why Surgeon is good is because of the immunity and heal you get.

So Surgeon General is only good because of her SA? Isn't it the case for all fighters?

My point is to make an actual strategy counts for both defense and offense and not just have surgeon general and bio exorcist in every boss node. My concern is not with how op something is but the overall health of the game.

Problem with your point is that yes, you can make lower ranked players have easier boss nodes, but it will also make higher level players boss nodes trivial.
For that reason you can't just nerf the hp/atk modifiers, you have to think for all level of play, not just low level or mid level
I suppose they could make modifiers get stronger as you rank up, but that would be really confusing, and as I said earlier, just making all buffs useless makes boss node irrelevant.

 

[fanghoul]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095513796364226560
In version 3.1 the stamina system for Rift Battles is being changed. Instead of being usable once before being drained, fighters can be used twice before being drained. However the option to refresh fighters with theonite has been removed. There will also be bonus points attached to using a fighter for the first time in any given Rift Battle. What do you all think of these changes?

I'm finding this change really interesting. I've expressed concerns in the past that the Theonite refresh was giving some people the option to pay to win pretty directly (as opposed to just buying a great roster), so I'm glad to see that changed.

Being able to use characters twice is a HUGE thing. It depends a lot on what the point benefits are to only using them once, but it seems like it's going to level the playing field a lot. It's not going to matter as much now if you have the same number or more diamonds as your opponent, and messing up one time will feel like less of an automatic loss of the entire rift battle, because you no longer have your A-team for that particular node.

I actually don't know if this is going to benefit me or not, but I'm excited to see what happens.

 

[Reshiram18]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095876658559541248
In version 3.1 the boss node is getting changed. The health and attack boosts have been reduced to 150%, and the other modifiers have been changed from Sacrosanct and Jinx to House Advantage, Jinx, and Final Curse. What you all think of these changes? I am personally happy to see that my Primed can get a Napalm Shot bleed and an Inferno Brigade heavy bleed to stick against anything.
Also I can freely run stun moves without having to worry about stunning myself.

 

[Daelon]

Someone is going to lose to the new boss node? This look so bad, what is the point to make a defense now if your boss now is going to get
shattered by practically any variant now. The rift battle are going to be a clown fiesta to see which player makes less mistakes, and wish that your opponent makes a throw because +150% is nothing (being realistic for someone with a diamond attacker).

 

[Luke]

It was too hard. Now it’s too easy.
Unless there are a few more modifiers wasn’t included in the twitter screenshot.

 

[Reshiram18]

Someone is going to lose to the new boss node? This look so bad, what is the point to make a defense now if your boss now is going to get
shattered by practically any variant now. The rift battle are going to be a clown fiesta to see which player makes less mistakes, and wish that your opponent makes a throw because +150% is nothing (being realistic for someone with a diamond attacker).

Honestly we will have to see what happens to all the other nodes first before we can really determine whether Rifts will become a game of making fewer small mistakes than your opponent.

 

[FriendlyWolf]

RIP Sancrosact, it was fun while it lasted.I personally liked it due to how it forced players to really think about which fighters would be useful on with the elemental advantages. Now I can just use Filia to apply perma bleed to every character except ICU Valentines and Bloodbath.
But yeah we should see how other nodes are changed in general before making a general consensus.

 

[fanghoul]

https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1095876658559541248
In version 3.1 the boss node is getting changed. The health and attack boosts have been reduced to 150%, and the other modifiers have been changed from Sacrosanct and Jinx to House Advantage, Jinx, and Final Curse. What you all think of these changes? I am personally happy to see that my Primed can get a Napalm Shot bleed and an Inferno Brigade heavy bleed to stick against anything.
Also I can freely run stun moves without having to worry about stunning myself.

I'm glad to see them switch it up, but this feels more like an overcorrection in terms of difficulty. That's a big decrease in power for the node. I guess it's a little harder to use only one character to take out all three, since giving the enemy elemental advantage is a likely way to get BB3'd, but other than that...

I guess Jinx and Final Curse can work together, but I just can't see them being even a quarter as fatal as Sacrosanct and Jinx were, especially with the stat buffs becoming weaker too.

Maybe this and the "use characters twice" change will make rift mode more accessible though, and rebalance it towards doing well in fights vs having impossible to beat nodes.

I wonder if there's more rift changes coming. More methods of getting bonus points in battle would be another thing they could add, and would also move it further towards "skillful wins" as the mode goal.

 

[Daelon]

Honestly we will have to see what happens to all the other nodes first before we can really determine whether Rifts will become a game of making fewer small mistakes than your opponent.

If they dont make at least +100% at every other nodes the players that are going to win are those with the cheap tactics of silver fighters so you cannot get the extra 150 points of bb finish and combo. Lets be realistic i dont remember the last time i lost vs a node that wasnt the boss. I think it was vs a dreaklocks and for being stupid for using dm instead of bloodbath. High level players can just destroy +500% with ONLY 1 variant (their best variant), i dont see how +150% is going to be a challenge for a "boss"node.