Remove Prize Fight Golds from Relics (EDITED)

[Peacockis2cool4u]

I'm not sure why there has to be a blanket statement about "ungrateful older players." It isn't ungratefulness. Players wouldn't be making suggestions, or creating threads if we didn't enjoy the game and want to see it grow in a positive way. Although, a petition was probably not the best mode of suggestion.

Scoria's reply has convinced me that removing PF golds from relics ENTIRELY is most likely not the solution to roll with. But maybe there could be a seperate Relic designated for non-PF golds? That would at least ensure that those who have most of the PF golds won't feel shafted in receiving the same HQuin or RNerv. Debatable though.

I believe that there should be a way to build up to a variant you really want, without having to put all of your faith and theo into a lottery machine.

This isn’t a suggestion from older players if you have to make a petition for it. This is flat out “asking” for it to happen. Look at what @Psyche said. I made that statement TOWARDS “ungrateful older players” because you should never “forcefully” try to get the people who work on Skullgirls Mobile’s attention buy blindly making a petition for something that’ll just benefit older players.

 

[Fel]

Perhaps not remove them from all relics, but just the Gold Relic or even make the gold relic shards from Elemental PFs special shards that guarantee non-pf golds instead.

It does suck to get a PF gold from relics, but I feel like its a bit unfair to newer players who can't get top 10% consistently. With the increased playerbase due to the release in parts of Asia, the 10% line will rise (and has rose, quite a lot in the past few weeks). Suddenly making 1/3 of the gold pool unobtainable to 90% of the playerbase sounds too extreme.

 

[Peacockis2cool4u]

Sorry if I understood your comment wrong, but it seems you made a little confusion here... This is about removing PF gold fighters from the relics, not do some kind of rotation between all the gold variants so all of them can be the reward at some point.



I wish I was already playing when it was 3 mil... When I got my first prize it was with ~6.5 mil, and tbh even though the top 10% cut got a little higher now I still have to play about the same amount, also I saw someone in game chat saying they got wulfsbane in the last beo pf with 7mil (idk if it is true, I did it with 9.7 mil). Maybe this is just my case but it appears we still have to play the same amount of battles, sure it will depend more on how high your streaks are but with some 3k silvers you can already go pretty far there, just gotta grind a little harder which is expected from someone new to the game if they want to get top 10%.

Like I saw someone saying in another post, once you get the ball rowling, it ROLLS. It's impressive how true this is, after the first gold it just gets easier to reach top 10% as you go

EDIT: another thing, we have to remember the game is growing, more players means more PF competition. It just natural that the cuts raise as this happens, just like the amount of effort new and old players will have to put in their grinding so they can get to top 10% faster

I apologize if I sound rude, but what do you mean by my comment relating to a rotation between all gold variations so they can be rewarded at some point? I just reread my comment again, and I never brought up an idea remotely relevant to that. I referred to the golds in the Prize Fights, not Relic Exclusive ones. My apologies if it wasn’t that clear.

 

[Zuzuska]

This isn’t a suggestion from older players if you have to make a petition for it. This is flat out “asking” for it to happen. Look at what @Psyche said. I made that statement TOWARDS “ungrateful older players” because you should never “forcefully” try to get the people who work on Skullgirls Mobile’s attention buy blindly making a petition for something that’ll just benefit older players.

Right, I acknowledged the fact that creating a petition was most likely the wrong method of asking for change. However, change is influenced by "asking" for it. You have to ask for something and present an issue at hand in order for something to be done about it. This has been a topic for many older players for a while, and blindly calling other nonspecifically named players ungrateful is still not an appropriate response. It's difficult to be entirely grateful and loving to a game, while also being subjective and analytical towards it as well. I wish nothing else but for this game to succeed, so I make suggestions and debate on how things can be improved.

 

[Peacockis2cool4u]

I apologize if I sound rude, but what do you mean by my comment relating to a rotation between all good variations so they can be rewarded at some point? I just reread my comment again, and I never brought up an idea remotely relevant to that. I referred to the golds in the Prize Fights, not Relic Exclusive ones. My apologies if it wasn’t that clear.

Right, I acknowledged the fact that creating a petition was most likely the wrong method of asking for change. However, change is influenced by "asking" for it. You have to ask for something and present an issue at hand in order for something to be done about it. This has been a topic for many older players for a while, and blindly calling other nonspecifically named players ungrateful is still not an appropriate response. It's difficult to be entirely grateful and loving to a game, while also being subjective and analytical towards it as well. I wish nothing else but for this game to succeed, so I make suggestions and debate on how things can be improved.

You misread my comment. Change should never be givien by FORCEFULLY asking for it. And I’m stating this because they stated that they rushed the whole post. You don’t just make a thread to hear people’s opinions and rush to make a petition for it. You hear people’s opinions first. I never blindly called anyone ungrateful. I clearly meant that comment towards the PLAYERS who ARE ungrateful. You, and everyone in this thread may not be an ungrateful player, so that comment wasn’t at all directed towards you or them. I like making suggestions, but never blindly make a petition for it. Suggestions should be made via a poll on this site. That’s why they’re there. It just looks really forced to make a suggestion to everyone and counting “your vote” by a petition. You’re not “asking” for it, you’re practically “begging.” That’s all I’m against frankly. That, and the unfairness it would give to other players. At the same time, I’m not stating that suggestions aren’t useful. In fact, they’re very useful. You just should never make a petition to get the attention of the SGM community. I admire you making suggestions and debating on how things can improve. I appreciate players like you who are open to suggestions. If I sounded aggressive or angry, I didn’t mean to come off like that.

 

[Zuzuska]

Yeah alright, I totally agree with you and I appreciate the topics and discussion you provoked; Just try to avoid stating stuff like this \/

I’m not saying you are, but players these days (specifically the older ones) can be so ungrateful.

Despite you saying it isn't, it still comes across as passive-aggressive, and it's non-constructive.

 

[Inked]

I'm not sure why there has to be a blanket statement about "ungrateful older players." It isn't ungratefulness. Players wouldn't be making suggestions, or creating threads if we didn't enjoy the game and want to see it grow in a positive way. Although, a petition was probably not the best mode of suggestion.

Scoria's reply has convinced me that removing PF golds from relics ENTIRELY is most likely not the solution to roll with. But maybe there could be a seperate Relic designated for non-PF golds? That would at least ensure that those who have most of the PF golds won't feel shafted in receiving the same HQuin or RNerv. Debatable though.

I believe that there should be a way to build up to a variant you really want, without having to put all of your faith and theo into a lottery machine.

i totally understand that it’s not fully ungratefulness. a lot - if not most of the people around here aren’t like that and it’s good that suggestions like this are being made. i was using that as a way for me to sort of lead into the “you can’t get what you want” thing, but that wasn’t the best choice so i apologize.

(Sorry if I sound rude, I’m not trying to be) I’m not sure what you’re saying. I’m confused if you’re agreeing with Oozy, or if you misinterpreted my comment. I reread the comment I made, and if you’re saying “I just don’t believe this is the right way to that” because you might’ve thought my quote of “if you couldn’t get the fighters you literally worked hard for” meant that they SHOULD add new golds to the Prize Fights to change things up for older players, I didn’t mean it like that at all. I meant it as in working hard for those Prize Fight golds feels amazing when you’ve earned it. However, PFs aren’t as easy as they were, so completely removing them from relics would give higher players an advantage, making the game unfair for newer players, when (previously new but now old players) didn’t have to deal with the removal of those fighters. That’s what I meant with my comment and that’s why I think a petition is unnecessary. I like games to be fair for old and new players alike. Removing fighters from relics would make things harder for newer players, potentially making them game “too hard to play.” Again, my apologies if I sounded rude!

it was probably the latter. sorry for misinterpreting.

 

[PHPP]

Perhaps not remove them from all relics, but just the Gold Relic or even make the gold relic shards from Elemental PFs special shards that guarantee non-pf golds instead.

I really like this, it seems to be the fairest option if a change would be made. 6 mil was top 30% in the elemental pf, at least in the last one, so if you complete all the rewards in the pf in one month you'll get 1200 shards, that is one gold and now your next two will only take 3 weeks each before it gets back to 4 weeks again. It is pretty fair IMO, but ofc, like I said before, as the game grows so does the cuts. It's inevitable that newer players will have to grind more than the ones before them.

Now, not related to the previous paragraph, I don't get why saying getting these pf golds for diamond fuel justifies keeping them in relics. The chances of pulling one gold variant would remain the same in premier relics once the % was redistributed, 2 golds for each character. Only the elemental relics odds of getting a gold would change and that is if we talk about a specific one, but the amount of golds in them are already different. Even the character relics, which is the one most people will likely buy if they are looking for diamond fuel, the chance of getting a gold remains the same, not having the PF variant there wouldn't make a difference in this case. If you're going to kill a gold for a diamond it doesn't matter if it is a HQ or an AF, if you wanted to use one though...

But this is only if we're talking about evolving golds. What @Fel said seems to be the better solution, only removing them from gold relics. Heck, I can't deny if I had gotten more lucky and pulled a Diva Intervention instead of a Red Velvet my start would've been much easier. Leaving these golds in normal relics seems better to me now.

It will probably motivate those new players to stay when they discover they got the best variant possible. As for older players, which are the majority in top 10%, I'm sure they'll appreciate that their grinding in two elemental pfs will reward them with a guaranteed non gold pf, specially since during these two weeks they probably got 4 more of those

 

[Inked]

Now, not related to the previous paragraph, I don't get why saying getting these pf golds for diamond fuel justifies keeping them in relics. The chances of pulling one gold variant would remain the same in premier relics once the % was redistributed, 2 golds for each character. Only the elemental relics odds of getting a gold would change and that is if we talk about a specific one, but the amount of golds in them are already different. Even the character relics, which is the one most people will likely buy if they are looking for diamond fuel, the chance of getting a gold remains the same, not having the PF variant there wouldn't make a difference in this case. If you're going to kill a gold for a diamond it doesn't matter if it is a HQ or an AF, if you wanted to use one though...

it is explaining why getting pf dupes from a relic shouldn’t be a big deal: because you can use them for diamond evolutions. it’s not the % chance for gold changing, but the reasoning behind why i think (and a few others do too) you shouldn’t be very disappointed when you get a pf gold from relics.

 

[OozyGamer]

Updated some reasoning as to why I feel this change should be enforced. Check the main post

 

[Peacockis2cool4u]

Around some time yesterday I made this post with a petition stating as to why they should remove Prize Fight Golds from relics. However, I did not provide any effective reasoning for it, and that's what this edit is for; to provide some effective reasoning as to why I feel the way I do about this.

As you may know, you can obtain the following gold fighters from relics as well as top placements in prize fights:

>Parasite Weave Filia
>Primed Parasoul
>Wulfsbane Beowulf
>Untouchable Peacock
>Raw Nerv Painwheel
>Immoral Fiber Double
>Poltergust Squigly
>Silent Kill Valentine
>Diva Intervention Eliza
>Epic Sax Big Band
>Harlequin Cerebella

The most frustrating part about having these fighters available in relics is receiving them as duplicates. But not simply just that, but just given their value as fighters in general. Compared to other gold fighters, they aren't really rare or considerably valuable at all. You'll notice that almost every player from levels 35-60 have them, and even some more advanced players with an inventory completely STOCKED full of them:

Getting these fighters out of relics can just be frustrating and I'm not the only one that thinks so. Several players have expressed their frustration in getting these relatively easy to obtain golds out of relics as brand new fighters after hearing they can be obtained through another method. Or as mere duplicates. Just check the Discord and it's evident.

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And even just some comments from the petition I recently started:

View attachment 1175 View attachment 1176

And I'm sure a lot of you will express similar feelings to mine and these responses in the replies below

I feel as if removing them from relics would not only tone down some frustration for veteran players, but create some more diversity amongst the fighters as well and overall satisfaction. If these fighters were exclusive to Prize Fights, I'm sure it could increase their value slightly as well too, creating golds that exist in a competitive and skill based category of the game rather than just sheer luck. Although, it still wouldn't up their value entirely to put them in comparison with other relic golds.

As far as the argument for these fighters being potential carries and a necessity for new players to rank up in Prize Fights goes, it's invalid for several reasons. The first reason being is that there are several other extremely good carry fighters that can be pulled from relics (or just valuable fighters with unique SAs):

>Bio-Exorcist Squigly
>Armed Forces Cerebella
>Brain Freeze Cerebella
>Private Dick Big Band
>Buzzkill Painwheel
>Ultraviolent Peacock
>Rainbow Blight Double
>Xenomorph Double

And you don't need a relic gold fighter to carry you in gold PFs to get one of the Prize Fight fighters. I got my first Prize Fight gold (Epic Sax Big Band) by using a Gold Rerun Peacock and a Gold Bassline Big Band, the two fighters that are given to you at the start of the game but leveled to max. And that's something we're forgetting. You CAN upgrade Bronze and Silver fighters to Gold, making them just as strong as regular Gold Fighters. You don't need an Epic Sax Big Band or a Harlequin Cerebella to carry you in the Prize Fights, but you could do the same with a Gold Cold Stones Beowulf or a Gold Doublicious Double. Even then, I continued to use those fighters to get the other gold Prize Fight fighters until I had leveled them all up efficiently and there was no need for them. I got my first relic gold (Surgeon General Valentine) a longtime after I had already gotten all of the Prize Fight fighters.

And even so, duplicates are still bound to occur if this change is enforced but that's okay. The thing is, there will still be more value behind them compared to getting a duplicate Prize Fight Gold out of a relic (ex. a duplicate Brain Freeze is more valuable than a duplicate Harlequin)

So for those who agree with this change, I'll leave the link to the petition below, although I'm sure it isn't the only way to enforce this change into the game.

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/remove-prize-fight-golds-from-relics

This makes more sense.
Don’t get me wrong, I get what you mean by the frustration and your reasons, but how would this ultimately affect the purpose of Theonite, especially in the long run? (If they change Raw Nerve to Buzzkill, Harlequin to Brain Freeze, etc. that is).

 

[OozyGamer]

This makes more sense.
Don’t get me wrong, I get what you mean by the frustration and your reasons, but how would this ultimately affect the purpose of Theonite, especially in the long run? (If they change Raw Nerve to Buzzkill, Harlequin to Brain Freeze, etc. that is).

Prize Fight Golds have less value than the relic exclusive golds, so ultimately you don't get let down if you DO in fact get a duplicate. So when you do spend 1000-3000 Theonite on a 10+1 relic pull, it definitely won't be as depressing to get a second Buzzkill, Brain Freeze, or Armed Forces Cerebella, just because they're a lot more rare and have more valuable since they're exclusive to relics and not prize fights. This is to consider the rates for even pulling a Gold, which is roughly over 3% (as decimals barely make a difference).

Yes, Prize Fight Golds can be used as fuel for Diamond Fighters, but so can Bronze and Silver fighters if you power them up. Plus, you get added Skill Points at that. Also, I don't think players want to have a 3% success rate of pulling out practical "Diamond Fuel" from the relics. Elemental Shards and Essences are hard enough to obtain.

 

[PHPP]

it is explaining why getting pf dupes from a relic shouldn’t be a big deal: because you can use them for diamond evolutions. it’s not the % chance for gold changing, but the reasoning behind why i think (and a few others do too) you shouldn’t be very disappointed when you get a pf gold from relics.

Sure we can use them for diamond evolutions, but it is just sad when you stop to think that if PF golds weren't in relics you would get a new gold you didn't have that you could also use for diamonds. I still think they should be taken out of the gold relic for this reason. I'm happy they added a new guaranteed way to get a gold fighter, but if the PFs ones were removed only from this relic it would be amazing for late game players while the new ones can still have a chance to get some of the best fighters (which are PF ones) via all the other relics in the game

Updated some reasoning as to why I feel this change should be enforced. Check the main post

When I first saw this post, I totally agreed with you, am more certain of that now after reading your explanations. But how do you feel about the motivational factor for new players? Knowing that those strong variants are only avaiable via PF scores that appear to be impossible for them to ever reach? This makes me think getting them out of gold relics only would be the best option (see my response to Inked above your quote). Maybe when they ask others if, for example, the Epic Sax they got in a premiere relic is good and people tell them that he is the best one, they might be more motivated to keep playing. Although, at the same time, I don't know if a player with this way of thinking is going to keep playing for a long time anyway

 

[NamelesstheBeardless]

My opinion is that it's so inconsistent to get golds from relics anyway that even if I was a newbie coming in it would make almost no difference. The only newbies that are actually going to be deeply affected by it are people who are going to fork over the cash.

I only started getting golds consistently through the PF, and never through relics. When I got a gold in a relic I'd be "huh cool?" it happened so rarely.

 

[Mentos]

i mean whats whats the point? it shouldnt be deleted because the New ish players has to compete with high level veterans for the gold. thus increasing the points needed for gold= harder farming = a sad nub
And the Literal 5 second player cant get the "OP Red circus woman and ragey umbrella lady" to carry them through hard missions
In conclusion. I disagree

And this ladies and gentlemen, is how the meta corrupts people into thinking only prize fight golds get high streaks.

 

[ghufronaka]

Perhaps not remove them from all relics, but just the Gold Relic or even make the gold relic shards from Elemental PFs special shards that guarantee non-pf golds instead.

This is great solution. Should be implemented to end this discussion.

About this petition:
Fairness is important, to new and old player. Thats why i object this petition.

About duplicate, it's a problem even from starter player who only have a bunch of bronze duplicate. But back then, you have plan to do with these duplicate, evolve it. When you got bunch gold duplicate, you can complaint before update 2.4.0. But after the update, you can evolve them. So no worries. Just another objective, collect the essence.

 

[Inked]

Sure we can use them for diamond evolutions, but it is just sad when you stop to think that if PF golds weren't in relics you would get a new gold you didn't have that you could also use for diamonds. I still think they should be taken out of the gold relic for this reason. I'm happy they added a new guaranteed way to get a gold fighter, but if the PFs ones were removed only from this relic it would be amazing for late game players while the new ones can still have a chance to get some of the best fighters (which are PF ones) via all the other relics in the game


When I first saw this post, I totally agreed with you, am more certain of that now after reading your explanations. But how do you feel about the motivational factor for new players? Knowing that those strong variants are only avaiable via PF scores that appear to be impossible for them to ever reach? This makes me think getting them out of gold relics only would be the best option (see my response to Inked above your quote). Maybe when they ask others if, for example, the Epic Sax they got in a premiere relic is good and people tell them that he is the best one, they might be more motivated to keep playing. Although, at the same time, I don't know if a player with this way of thinking is going to keep playing for a long time anyway

i agree that removing pf golds from the gold fighter relic would be a much better choice in the long run. (as you said) making them of exclusive has a very big chance of making the top 10% score rise - and since it’s already high enough nowadays, nobody really wants it to go up anymore.

 

[Cellsai]

Just moved this from General Discussion to here in the Feedback and Suggestions forum.

I'll weigh in later when I've got time to read the thread.

 

[BallotBoxer]

After reading the entire thread, I vote NO

In this Diamond Age, the community will just keep getting bigger and stronger. Like Filia's hat budget, that rising average in PFs will only keep getting higher. Just when I thought I was strong enough to start getting all the PF golds (got 3 of 'em), the recent Big Band and Beowulf PFs were blowout busts. What was "safe" is now several million points too low.

Instead of adding more barriers of frustrating exclusivity (some golds are only in the relic, some golds are only in the PF), we should balance the equation. The chance within the Gold Relics should be in the PF prizes.

SOLUTION: Prize Fights Top 1%-10% and Rank 1-10 selected gold fighter becomes gold variant random.

Example:
Win high ranks in the Peacock PF and you may get one of these three: Untouchable, That's All Folks!, and Ultraviolent

 

[OddLegend]

PsThis is my first time on here, so I’m sorry if I do this wrong)

I think this is an amazing idea and vote YES on removing PF golds from relics!
As a mid-late game player with most of the golds unlocked, it feels very dissatisfying to pull another Diva from a relic when really wanting a Bloodbath. The easy obtainability of the prize fight golds makes them seem inconsequential when pulling them from your hard earned relics. The act of making them PF exclusive would not only give them more of a sense of rarity while allowing players to pull different fighters from relics, but also reward PF players with an “exclusive” prize for all there hard work. Additionally, the act of making the fighters PF exclusive would drive new players to push hard for the top %’s in PF in order to obtain them, while veteran players would have to push even higher, thus increasing the amount of overall time spent playing the game. This change might also drive newer players to spend more on the game in hopes of progressing enough to achieve high prize fight placements as well as reducing the frustrations felt by late game players when constantly pulling duplicates.

As for the argument around newer players requiring these fighters to progress successfully, I respectfully disagree. While some of the prize fight golds are very strong, most fighters can be used successfully when clearing the story and daily’s given that they are at a high enough level and played with enough skill. For my part I did fine relying on my Baseline, Rerun and Icy Hot early game until I was lucky enough to pull an Armed Forces later on. Anyway that’s just my opinion, so feel free to disagree. : )